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Xeos
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:23 pm

Still a good read.
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Galt

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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:49 pm

Shelarahn wrote:
Galt wrote:
It IS a slippery slope. First we allow people to use the bible to change our laws on marriage, whats next? Making it punishable by death to worship a god besides the christian one? Start handing out the death penalty on any kind of sex crime? Killing people who raise a hand to their parents?

Are you quoting things from The Law? You realize we don't follow The Law anymore, right? Kind of the whole point of Jesus...



Genesis 19:4-8 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.


Care to define "The Law" for me?
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Shelarahn

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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:51 pm

Galt wrote:
Shelarahn wrote:
Galt wrote:
It IS a slippery slope. First we allow people to use the bible to change our laws on marriage, whats next? Making it punishable by death to worship a god besides the christian one? Start handing out the death penalty on any kind of sex crime? Killing people who raise a hand to their parents?

Are you quoting things from The Law? You realize we don't follow The Law anymore, right? Kind of the whole point of Jesus...



Genesis 19:4-8 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.


Care to define "The Law" for me?

The Old Testament
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:54 pm

So you agree with that part, but not about stoning a woman to death who's been raped and failed to cry out? I don't doubt your sincerity, but what criteria are you using to decide which old testament laws to follow and which to ignore?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:55 pm

grak wrote:
So you agree with that part, but not about stoning a woman to death who's been raped and failed to cry out? I don't doubt your sincerity, but what criteria are you using to decide which old testament laws to follow and which to ignore?

I didn't agree with anything?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:58 pm

You're agreeing with the part of The Law that is against gay marriage. Right?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:59 pm

Galt wrote:
You're agreeing with the part of The Law that is against gay marriage. Right?

Oh that, yeah. Not so much on the killing them part though
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:03 pm

Uh...so why not the killing part? Do you see the contradiction?

(A)
1) The Bible is the incontrovertible word of God.
2) The Bible says that homosexuality is wrong.
3) Homosexuality is wrong.

(B)
1) The Bible is the incontrovertible word of God.
2) The Bible says to stone homosexuals to death.
3) You should stone homosexuals to death.

*Why* do you agree with A and not B if the point (1) is the same in both cases?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:05 pm

I guess "Because" won't be a good enough answer?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:18 pm

As long as you're happy living in contradiction with your own cherished principles, knock yourself out.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:30 pm

Edit: Edited for use in other thread.


...and were I living in California, I'd vote No on prop 8 because I'm a bleeding-heart god-hating baby-killing tax-and-spend liberal who has sex with other men.

Pretty much covers everything, doesn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:40 pm

Hey, me too. Want to hook up? We could have some butt-secks. I heard that's all we do.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:37 pm

Holy crap, anyone notice the banner showing a lot of Pro Prop 8 stuff?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:39 pm

Xeos wrote:
Holy crap, anyone notice the banner showing a lot of Pro Prop 8 stuff?

What banner >^,~<
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:43 pm

The only ones I got on this page so far are ones about GLBT-accepting churches, getting your college degree, and one about the economy. However, a lot of the other pages are indeed pro-prop 8 in regard to the advertisement banners.

Edit: Except the page that had Galt's "Sounds like different boats" post. On that page it tried to entice me into buying a new boat or a new propeller for my boat.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:50 pm

I just got one that says "Vote Straight Democractic".

A little ironic considering the topic. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:40 am

Sry to res the thread, but this comment on the brief economist.com article about prop 8 struck me.

Quote :
As a life-long member of the Mormon church this misguided campaign has saddened and embarrassed me. This massive political effort is driven not great concern for how same-sex couples conduct their lives or a desire to "protect marriage," but an effort to spare impressionable children from any exposure to such a lifestyle - for the crowning fear of any LDS parent is that their child will be gay. I have counselled for many years with LDS families struggling with the sexual orientation of their children - and the common sentiment is that it would be easier to deal with the death of their child than the gay orientation of thier child. These gay children live lives of untold misery - depression and suicide rates are high.

At some point the church and its members will have to come to terms with the fact that same-gender orientation is a biological reality. If you're gay, you're gay - you are so because that's how you are, not because you were taught about it in elementary school. Educational programs such as the ones mentioned in the article will not make your children gay - but hopefully if are, such programs will ease some of the unnecessary shame and guilt that is universal to Mormons who are same-sex oriented.

The battle is not really against gay marriage - the battle is fundamentally against homosexuality, and one that the church (or coalition of churches) will never win. Biology does not respond to propaganda or fundraising. Biology does not care how many lawns feature the yes on prop 8 sign.

- Jane McArthur
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:10 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:16 pm

Lesbians have the right to remain sexy imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:23 pm

I just saw that on Digg a few minutes ago; I really don't like the ad.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:33 pm

Quote :
...but hopefully if are, such programs will ease some of the unnecessary shame and guilt that is universal to Mormons who are same-sex oriented.

This statement is in direct antithesis to the core premise of the LDS church. Namely, that you have to fuck your brains out (with one person of course) and make as many more Mormons as possible before you die, otherwise you don't get your own toy universe in the afterlife.

My co-worker's poor wife just had to have an emergency hysterectomy after giving birth to their fifth child because she wouldn't stop bleeding in post-op. [MrT] That don't make no sense to me. [/MrT]
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:44 pm

Kamma wrote:
Sry to res the thread, but this comment on the brief economist.com article about prop 8 struck me.

Quote :
As a life-long member of the Mormon church this misguided campaign has saddened and embarrassed me. This massive political effort is driven not great concern for how same-sex couples conduct their lives or a desire to "protect marriage," but an effort to spare impressionable children from any exposure to such a lifestyle - for the crowning fear of any LDS parent is that their child will be gay. I have counselled for many years with LDS families struggling with the sexual orientation of their children - and the common sentiment is that it would be easier to deal with the death of their child than the gay orientation of thier child. These gay children live lives of untold misery - depression and suicide rates are high.

At some point the church and its members will have to come to terms with the fact that same-gender orientation is a biological reality. If you're gay, you're gay - you are so because that's how you are, not because you were taught about it in elementary school. Educational programs such as the ones mentioned in the article will not make your children gay - but hopefully if are, such programs will ease some of the unnecessary shame and guilt that is universal to Mormons who are same-sex oriented.

The battle is not really against gay marriage - the battle is fundamentally against homosexuality, and one that the church (or coalition of churches) will never win. Biology does not respond to propaganda or fundraising. Biology does not care how many lawns feature the yes on prop 8 sign.

- Jane McArthur

Thanks for posting this.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:28 pm

Kamma wrote:
Sry to res the thread, but this comment on the brief economist.com article about prop 8 struck me.

Quote :
As a life-long member of the Mormon church this misguided campaign has saddened and embarrassed me. This massive political effort is driven not great concern for how same-sex couples conduct their lives or a desire to "protect marriage," but an effort to spare impressionable children from any exposure to such a lifestyle - for the crowning fear of any LDS parent is that their child will be gay. I have counselled for many years with LDS families struggling with the sexual orientation of their children - and the common sentiment is that it would be easier to deal with the death of their child than the gay orientation of thier child. These gay children live lives of untold misery - depression and suicide rates are high.

At some point the church and its members will have to come to terms with the fact that same-gender orientation is a biological reality. If you're gay, you're gay - you are so because that's how you are, not because you were taught about it in elementary school. Educational programs such as the ones mentioned in the article will not make your children gay - but hopefully if are, such programs will ease some of the unnecessary shame and guilt that is universal to Mormons who are same-sex oriented.

The battle is not really against gay marriage - the battle is fundamentally against homosexuality, and one that the church (or coalition of churches) will never win. Biology does not respond to propaganda or fundraising. Biology does not care how many lawns feature the yes on prop 8 sign.

- Jane McArthur

I owe you a beer for posting this.

Vote no on Prop 8, I did with all the other cool kids so you should too!

p.s. christianity's still a hypocritical joke imo
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:20 pm

News just reported 70 million dollars spent on this. Wow I could think of better things to spend 70 million on.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Prop 8 Thread   Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:58 am

The people who voted for this should be ashamed.

Grats on ignorant and hateful.

The state of California should be ashamed as well as they have shown a clear indication that constitutional interpretation isn't always best left up to a public vote. Some people are too brain damaged to understand their position is unconstitutional and don't know how to leave the bible at the door when going to vote.
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