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Serayne

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PostSubject: Ret vs Onyxia   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:10 am

Did my second Onyxia solo kill this morning and netted right at around 200g (188 from the kill, and about 12 or so from merchanting epics). Took a total of ~21min: Trash was about 5min and the actually kill was 16min and 30sec. By using Seal and Judgement of Light, it's really quite easy. So, if you're ever ret and feel like making some quick bank, head on over and say what's up to Ony. :O
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Dimidréas

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:27 am

Makes me wish my pally had a ret set beyond Legacy =p
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Peanutbutter

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:47 am

Don't you start running out of mana from healing yourself? I seem to recall she's a chump but still hits for enough that you need to be a stacked defensive character to avoid frequent healing.

Also, how are you doing Phase 2?
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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:49 am

Serayne wrote:
Did my second Onyxia solo kill this morning and netted right at around 200g (188 from the kill, and about 12 or so from merchanting epics). Took a total of ~21min: Trash was about 5min and the actually kill was 16min and 30sec. By using Seal and Judgement of Light, it's really quite easy. So, if you're ever ret and feel like making some quick bank, head on over and say what's up to Ony. :O

Certainly keen to give it a try, the changes to judgement of light/mana are crazy, especially with the instant flash of light too.
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Serayne

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:56 pm

PB, with the changes made to Seal of Light and Judgment of Light, I do massive amounts of healing with just attacking. In addition to this, I have Divine Storm which also heals me for a percentage of its damage. Whenever a Judgment/Crusader Strike/Divine Storm crits, I get an instant cast flash heal that does around 2k (non crit). Mana issues are damn near non existent as I make sure to Judge every time the cooldown is up so I gain around 1k mana every 8 seconds. Mana can be an issue at the end of the fight when I am throwing (instant, high damage) Hammer of Wraths every cooldown as well.

Phase two I just follow Onyxia around generally doing my usual rotation of "spamming every ability I have", with the exception of usually waiting until I get about half-life and have a couple whelps on me to pop Divine Storm, which in turn heals me to full and generally always crits at least on either Ony or the whelp(s), thus giving me another quick Flash Heal. If shit hits the fan, I either Avenging Wrath to increase my Divine Storm damage/healing, or Divine Protection (Shield Wall). Divine Shield is usually used at the beginning of phase 2 when all the whelps come. I enjoy whooping her ass and getting the oldschool loots, heh. Got the T2 Paladin Helm on my first kill, and got the Skeleton Book and a Shard of the Scale on the second kill. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:25 pm

OP

...and jealous
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Petrus

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:28 pm

I found that even as prot with the changes to spell pushback, BoS, and JoW, I can get Onyxia most of the way down if I can avoid pulling too many whelps (though some small number, 2-6 or so, help keep my mana up).
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taldra

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:30 pm

I think you guys got nerfed to had...

Quote :
As I stated yesterday, we are happy with Ret's PvE damage and sustatined damage in PvP, but were concerned that the burst damage in PvP could be too high. We discussed this for literally hours yesterday, which was certainly not the first time we have discussed the issue. Thus I hope these changes are not perceived as a knee-jerk reaction, but I am sure that will depend a great deal on which class you play. Smile

Divine Storm -- the damage was changed from Holy to Physical. As you know, Holy damage is almost never mitigated and this talent could pack a lot into a very short time. This is a nerf to the ability's damage. This change is now active on Live.

Repentance -- this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.

Art of War -- now affects all damage done by Judgements, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm (instead of critical strike damage). Net dps should be about the same but less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13.

Righteous Vengeance -- now applies a dot affect similar to Deep Wounds (instead of critical strike damage). This ends up being a significant buff to the ability to make up for the damage lost to Divine Storm, but is also less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13. EDIT: The dot will NOT break Repentance.

Glyph of Crusader Strike -- now reduces mana cost (instead of increased damage on stunned targets.) We thought paladins could stack too much damage vs. stunned targets. This change will be made before Nov 13.

We also fixed a bug with Seal and Judgement of Light that could sometimes result in too much healing.

In our tests, Retribution dps remains the same over longer periods of time, but they can't do quite so much damage in the initial few seconds of a PvP encounter.

I know Ret pallies feel a little picked on since we've made this mistake before of having them come out the gate too strong and then had to correct them. For that I do apologize. It's a difficult spec to balance since part of its design is to have large crits and stuns, which have obvious PvP implications. We are pretty confident this will not nerf pallies into the ground as I facetiously promised yesterday, but if we overdid it, we'll be happy to back off some of the changes.

On the other hand, maybe we'll see fewer BGs with 20 paladins on the opposing side and can get some reasonable feedback on all the other classes in the game.

EDIT: To clairfy the new dot will not break Repentance

Repentence will be changed not to break on the new Righteous Vengeance dot.

Art of War was NOT majorly buffed. The damage should remain the same over time, but fewer gigantic crits. It will be something like +4 / 8% damage (instead of +10 / 20% crit), which should be the same overall assuming a crit rate of around 40%.

Righteous Vengeance was majorly buffed to make up for the Divine Storm nerf. It should end up at something like 10% of the crit damage each tick for 4 ticks of 2 seconds each (+40% and 8 sec total).
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Galt

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:49 pm

Its funny how months of QQing from Beta testers about ret pallies nets nothing and they hotfix it within 24 hours of going live.
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- Z -

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:53 pm

Believe me, it's not fixed yet.

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Galt

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:06 pm

Of course, I didn't mean to imply actual fixing by using the term hotfix. We know blizzard's feelings on the subject of "fixing" things.

So its still pretty lulz?
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- Z -

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:09 pm

I have 13.5k HP and 460 resilience. I can live against a Ret Paladin for 15 seconds, 6 of them while I'm channeling Dispersion (new defensive ability, 90% damage reduction).

Yeah...

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Galt

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:19 pm

They were pretty ri-damn-diculous on beta so I know what you mean to a certain extent. Getting three-shot in plate by someone 2 levels lower is pretty jank.
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Damacus

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:32 pm

I got cheap shotted by a rogue and killed by a ret pally before cheapshot wore off on battletoady.
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Rishana

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:33 pm

- Z - wrote:
Dispersion (new defensive ability, 90% damage reduction).

Yeah...


Avenging Wrath, talented negates 50% of armor, resil, or any other dmg reduction ability, including dispersion and pain suppression

yeah....
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Xeos
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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:02 pm

In Gruuls tonight Petrus was MT. He was also #1 Healing by far, in Mag the Ret Paladin was also #1 Healing. Paladins in general need a good tweaking not just ret.
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Ichaerus
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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:10 pm

I got 2k+ hps while wanding half the time.

Good job, Patch.

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:07 am

This sucks Sad

I've tried twice now, and I do fine untill she goes to phase 2, the welps take all my mana and she fucks me with fireballs Sad
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grak

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:05 pm

just curious...

what was your tack for phase 2?
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Serayne

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:02 pm

Fraps failed me pretty hard. Will have to work with it. However...Seems that they stealth buffed Onyxia. She hits so much harder now. Last week in phase one I didn't have to cast a single non-instant Flash of Light during P1... this week I had to spam it twice after every Flame Breath. Same thing in P3. Phase 2 was about the same, but the fireballs hit a little harder. Not sure why this was happening. =( Almost wiped several times and only got 133g from the kill! QQ.

Edit: Think I figured it out. Seal and Judgement of Light got majorly nerfed (when the hell did this happen?) Seal of Light Avg: 392
Judgement of Light Avg: 262

Also, Divine Storm healing was cut down quite a bit because it now causes Physical Damage instead of Holy Damage and I had no armor debuff on the target. Also wasn't using all my armor pen gear I was last week... sigh. Let the nerfing of ret continue. /quitwow


Last edited by Serayne on Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Petrus

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:04 pm

Get a LW to zone into your instance after a kill sometime; we needs us some scales of Onyxia so more of us can get the BWL achievement more easily.
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Shelarahn

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:15 pm

Petrus wrote:
Get a LW to zone into your instance after a kill sometime; we needs us some scales of Onyxia so more of us can get the BWL achievement more easily.

<-----
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Rishana

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:22 pm

get somebody to heal you and its still easy as hell, pretty much they are theyre if you get a string of not critting and cant instantly heal yourself. instead of soloable its now 2mannable
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Serayne

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PostSubject: Re: Ret vs Onyxia   Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:05 am

Meh, it's still solo'able. It's just a major pain in the ass now. I may dual box my feral druid (skinner) from now on, not sure.
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