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 Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.

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Kornak

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:20 am

Huckabee was epic fail. He wanted to change the constitution so that it was more like the bible.

P.S. Galt I totally agree with almost everything you have said. You seem to actually know what you are talking about. (I'm not saying other people here don't know.)
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Kamma

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:03 am

Shel, that would be great, if FMFM had anything to do with causing the crisis. True they are a liability to the tax payer, and in hindsight we can say that we may have wanted to tighten their leash. But that's entirely different than the allegation of your link.

Your link claims:

Quote :
Sen. John McCain's 2006 demand for regulatory action on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could have prevented current financial crisis...

This is plainly a false head-in-the-sand notion designed to spin and mislead common discourse. Publicly available statistical data from the fed cleanly and clearly refutes it.

From http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html:

Quote :
Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height vrom 2004 to 2006.

Federal Reserve Board data show that:

_ More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

_ Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

_ Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.

The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets reported Friday.
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Honed



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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:10 am

Galt wrote:
No, it wouldn't. When you ask if I think it plays a part in it Presidential abilities, the answer is no I don't. Proving allegiance to one's country through service shows a strong commitment to the country, I can't knock that, but it does not give them pro tips on how to run the country.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I for one see the dedication, perseverance, work ethic, chain of command, leadership and team work values of the military as a huge asset to our executive branch. This is not to say that every military person will exhibit these, but certainly I think a veteran of war would. Once again I am not arguing that McCain is right for our presidency, in fact I feel quite the opposite. Instead I am arguing that the military instills values that I as an American believe to be important attributes for our future Commander-in-Chief to have.
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Petrus

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:41 am

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Peanutbutter

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:41 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents_by_military_service

Clearly, military service has no real bearing upon whether a military man is going to be a good leader.

Good Presidents with military service
Reagan
LBJ
JFK
Eisenhower
TR
Arthur
Lincoln
Jackson
Monroe
Madison
Washington

Bad Presidents with military service
Bush 41
Carter
Ford
Benjamin Harrison
Hayes
Grant
Johnson
Buchanan
Pierce
Fillmore
Tyler

Toss Ups based upon entire Presidency
Nixon (Popular president but shamed by scandal)
Truman (Initially popular, disgraced by Korean War)
McKinley (Died too soon)
Garfield (Died too soon)
Taylor (Died too soon)
Polk (Popular speaker, some issues over slavery)
William Henry Harrison (Died too soon)
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Petrus

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:43 am

Now THAT is a fascinating list, but where's Clinton?
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Peanutbutter

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:44 am

I excluded people who didn't serve in any wars.
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Shelarahn

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:05 am

The link I provided said it MIGHT have averted some of the chaos caused by the crisis, not completely solved it.

And funny story, I'm actually related to President McKinley on my mothers side.
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Petrus

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:48 am

Ah yeah, I missed that, PB. What about good presidents without and bad presidents without military service?
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Honed



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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:32 pm

Peanutbutter wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents_by_military_service

Clearly, military service has no real bearing upon whether a military man is going to be a good leader.

Good Presidents with military service
Reagan
LBJ
JFK
Eisenhower
TR
Arthur
Lincoln
Jackson
Monroe
Madison
Washington

Bad Presidents with military service
Bush 41
Carter
Ford
Benjamin Harrison
Hayes
Grant
Johnson
Buchanan
Pierce
Fillmore
Tyler

Toss Ups based upon entire Presidency
Nixon (Popular president but shamed by scandal)
Truman (Initially popular, disgraced by Korean War)
McKinley (Died too soon)
Garfield (Died too soon)
Taylor (Died too soon)
Polk (Popular speaker, some issues over slavery)
William Henry Harrison (Died too soon)

You continue to ignore what I am saying. When did I say that military service is the only thing that determines a good President...Oh wait I didn't. I did however say that it is a positive attribute for a President to have.

How did your list prove that wrong? If anything it proved that the American voting public has agreed with me throughout history.
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Kamma

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:47 pm

Shelarahn wrote:
The link I provided said it MIGHT have averted some of the chaos caused by the crisis, not completely solved it.

And funny story, I'm actually related to President McKinley on my mothers side.

It said exactly what I linked. And in either case, that's still wrong. If FMFM didn't exist, the crisis could have precipitated just the same. FMFM was not a channel for the crisis. They are institutions who were harmed by it. Completely different things. That's like saying that if only they hadn't had residential zones in Hiroshima no one would have died.
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Peanutbutter

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:14 pm

Honed, from your own post:
Quote :
Instead I am arguing that the military instills values that I as an American believe to be important attributes for our future Commander-in-Chief to have.
That's a pretty clear admission that you feel military service somehow grants people leadership qualities. I'm showing you that 1) people tend to agree with you throughout history and 2) that claim is almost certainly not true based upon the results.
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Polarity

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:25 pm

Honed wrote:
Peanutbutter wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents_by_military_service

Clearly, military service has no real bearing upon whether a military man is going to be a good leader.

Good Presidents with military service
Reagan
LBJ
JFK
Eisenhower
TR
Arthur
Lincoln
Jackson
Monroe
Madison
Washington

Bad Presidents with military service
Bush 41
Carter
Ford
Benjamin Harrison
Hayes
Grant
Johnson
Buchanan
Pierce
Fillmore
Tyler

Toss Ups based upon entire Presidency
Nixon (Popular president but shamed by scandal)
Truman (Initially popular, disgraced by Korean War)
McKinley (Died too soon)
Garfield (Died too soon)
Taylor (Died too soon)
Polk (Popular speaker, some issues over slavery)
William Henry Harrison (Died too soon)

You continue to ignore what I am saying. When did I say that military service is the only thing that determines a good President...Oh wait I didn't. I did however say that it is a positive attribute for a President to have.

How did your list prove that wrong? If anything it proved that the American voting public has agreed with me throughout history.

Is it a positive attribute for a president to have? The length of both good and bad lists that pb provided are pretty close. I would deem it inconclusive.
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Honed



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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:53 pm

Peanutbutter wrote:
Honed, from your own post:
Quote :
Instead I am arguing that the military instills values that I as an American believe to be important attributes for our future Commander-in-Chief to have.
That's a pretty clear admission that you feel military service somehow grants people leadership qualities. I'm showing you that 1) people tend to agree with you throughout history and 2) that claim is almost certainly not true based upon the results.

Important values you equated to Leadership only? Not sure why it's plural.
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Demoniack

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:46 am

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Shelarahn

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:17 am

Demoniack wrote:

Except up to 1963, all the states that were former slave states ALWAYS voted Democrat (Except in 1942? when they voted for the Dixiecrat ticket)
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Peanutbutter

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:29 am

And California used to be reliably Republican. It's about the changing electorate. The Republican party, right now, is composed of a base of Evangelicals. That base lies throughout the Deep South, the "Okies," parts of the Mid-West, and deeply religious states like Wyoming and Utah. The Democratic base is urban areas with large populations. It will change. It always does.
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Galt

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:07 pm

NOBODY FUCKS WITH JOHN MCCAIN!

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d
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Polarity

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:44 pm

Galt wrote:
NOBODY FUCKS WITH JOHN MCCAIN!

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d

Done pissed myself laughing.
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Peanutbutter

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PostSubject: Re: Prime Example of McCain Failing. Hard.   Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:36 pm

Pretty good from the chick who can't act.
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