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 [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage

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- Z -

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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:09 pm

Baked wrote:
Why don't you think so?

Years and years of mathematical DPS analysis from the Mage community, countless WWS reports, and armories of the top Mages in the game.


These threads define the matter pretty unequivocally:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18441-mage_sweet_informational_thread/

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16781-mage_help_me_please/

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t30655-mage_wotlk_talent_discussion_part_two/


Further, there is not one raiding Arcane Mage in all of Nihilum, S-K, Lore, Method, Deus Vox, D&T, Illuminati, Fuse, Shock, (and locally) Eternity, Oblivion, Blood Faith, Amitofo, Umbral Sect, or Deep Blue.


I am honestly a bit surprised that you are so dogged on the issue. It's a rather basic principle of Mage DPS. Arcane and Frost are not used for high end raiding, Fire is.

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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:15 pm

I'm simply going off of the experience I've had up to now, which is only halfway through BT. Player skills and full knowledge and use of a character also has to be considered. But I see what you're talking about. And for the record, Juniormage of amitofo had my spec for about 2 weeks, haha, but switched back, probably for reasons you've stated.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:30 pm

ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST
EVOCATE!
ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:40 am

Baked wrote:
I'm simply going off of the experience I've had up to now, which is only halfway through BT. Player skills and full knowledge and use of a character also has to be considered. But I see what you're talking about. And for the record, Juniormage of amitofo had my spec for about 2 weeks, haha, but switched back, probably for reasons you've stated.
You remind me of a warlock app we had some months ago (I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it's on this forum somewhere). He was convinced his non-traditional spec of SM/Ruin had worked great for "topping the meters" so far. We told him it was a bad PVE spec and he told us to give him a chance. When he showed up, I'm not even sure he beat the prot warrior.

I guarantee you that while your spec may have gotten you the distance it has so far, if you try to go toe-to-toe with any of the DD mages who've been working fire for a while now, you will look embarrassingly stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:02 pm

except for maybe me, because my gear's bad and, to quote the late, great, all-knowing and benevolent Hollowtipz: "lol t5 mage u bad"
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:41 pm

I went with you guys on a run up to the first boss yesterday in SWP. Any thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:50 pm

Amalgarashi wrote:
ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST
EVOCATE!
ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST ARCANE BLAST

i was watching your rotation, it was very in depth, i thought up a spec for you, check it,

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oVMhc

13/0/0, why waste the rest of the points when you could save em up for wrath, 6% more crit, some resists for survivability, wand dps when you go oom in ~30 seconds, and a really low required hit cap.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:04 pm

I too remember the warlock you are making reference to PB.

While Amal's post may be kind of flippant, you do realize that you will most likely go oom well before the fight reaches its midway point? Popping cooldowns and spamming Arcane Blast on Beta will literally drop your mana pool in 18 seconds. No, I'm not kidding.

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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:11 pm

- Z - wrote:
I too remember the warlock you are making reference to PB.

While Amal's post may be kind of flippant, you do realize that you will most likely go oom well before the fight reaches its midway point? Popping cooldowns and spamming Arcane Blast on Beta will literally drop your mana pool in 18 seconds. No, I'm not kidding.

As nice a point as that may be, Z, this is live, not beta, and things won't be that way until next tuesday. It probably takes at least 30 seconds to go oom right now.

Either way, these points should all be null and void because Baked doesn't have two pieces of Tier 5.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:48 pm

i dont like the fact when people call you it sounds like they are calling me, so there
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:39 am

but you're never online bake so it's ok.

and @ petrus, his point still applies because he said would be oom pre-midpoint,(if he's lucky) and then extended that into literally 18 seconds in the beta. it also doesnt matter that he doesnt have 2pc t5 because he still just spamed arcane blast.

the only question is, were you using that just to try and make your dps look legit? which i think the answer is obviously yes, because if it's not then ......................................................................


what is the rotation you wuold have used on a boss say we let you dps one?
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:34 am

i think the arcane/frost rotation is like 5 or 6 arcane blasts, pop ap, spam frostbolts til it's out, then spam ab's again (five or six, not sure) then frostbolts again. With all this you'll need a moonkin, two shadowpriests, endless pots and gems, and enough haste to put AB's down to 1s on the gcd (to make them worth spamming past the 2nd or 3rd cast, depending on your level of haste) and frostbolts under 2 when ap/icy veins is up.

This isn't 100% accurate, I'm going off of a video I saw of this spec in action a few months ago and what i remember on said video as well as the conversations myself and a few other skilled mages I know had.

tl;dr: it works for an ideal group setup and even then it's super mana intensive and very hard to play properly.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:33 am

thanks baked.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:01 pm

Each rotation of mine is different depending on the boss. I consider how long the fight takes on average, and plan my whole rotation ahead of time. On trash though, yes, I just spam arcane blast for the most part, cause I know I can get my mana back fast. But for bosses, it usually ends up being frostbolt spam, with popping my macro (cooldowns) whenever it's up. I also look at how slow I'm losing mana with just frostbolts and from that I differentiate when I can spam arcane blast like 5-6 times, then go back. I also, of course, pop mana emerald whenever possible and keep up my mana regeneration the best I can, when I do these things, like I said though, depends on the boss, and if I have to do specific things, or move, or what have you.
I do have 2 pieces of t5 in my bags, but I don't use them because then I wouldn't be hit capped, I need the Hood of Hexing from ZA for me to wear both of my t5 pieces and remain hit capped.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:07 pm

Good response, it's good to know you know shit about how2 play your spec, the only thing i can think to say is,



you're still not 2/48/11 and are therefore outputting less dps overall, being less mana efficient, and wasting a raid spot over a fire mage. if you're going to be considered as a serious applicant it's going to be fire or gtfo.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:01 pm

I am still baffled that such a seemingly intelligent and informed player insists on the validity of an Arcane Spec. While your gear may (kind of but not really) support it, it has no place in end game raiding, and will be completely worthless in WotLK due to the changes in the mage talent trees and lack of T5 set bonus.

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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:49 pm

It's pretty much just habbit and being stubborn. If you see something for a while, and compare it to other things you see, you're gonna fight for what you've seen. But I trust your guyses wisdom and insite. Afterall, you guys ARE at end game, as I am not. Nice choice of vocabulary also Z. ^_^ If fire spec is what I need to be, then fire spec is what I will become.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:25 pm

Baked wrote:
It's pretty much just habbit and being stubborn. If you see something for a while, and compare it to other things you see, you're gonna fight for what you've seen. But I trust your guyses wisdom and insite. Afterall, you guys ARE at end game, as I am not. Nice choice of vocabulary also Z. ^_^ If fire spec is what I need to be, then fire spec is what I will become.

/cheer, after some obvious gear changes/upgrades i have faith in you becoming a good fire mage.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:15 pm

how would taking two piece t5 drop you below 126 hit rating? just curious is all. (or is it 122 hit rating for frost cap?)
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:20 pm

Frost is 126, until next Tuesday.

Arcane is 76, until next Tuesday.

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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:18 pm

are they removing the ghost hit mechanic? because if so, that's fucking stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:30 pm

Amalgarashi wrote:
thanks baked.

your welco... oh wait...
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:48 pm

Where were you today? Part of agreeing to be prepared is showing up to the next raid. If you let an officer know you can't make it (either via tells, PMs, or posting in this thread) that is one thing, but to not show up completely unannounced on what would have been an ideal day to try out does not put favorable points in your camp. You'll notice I have declined some applicants for as much.

Please be on line and on time to our next raid, or let us know if you cannot make it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:45 am

where da potatoes at?
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PostSubject: Re: [Withdrawn] Bakedpotato - arcane/frost mage   Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:52 pm

Are you still interested in joining?

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