First Presidential Debate

Obama won pretty clearly. Focus groups, fast polls, pundits, even some talking heads at FOX News are calling it a win for Obama. Palin is in position to get hammered next week after her terrible TV interviews as of late (lulz at keeping on eye on Putin). And then the last two debates are on domestic issues, which falls into Obama's strong suit. My question is, when does McCain have the time to make up his already-lost ground?

Side note: The looks on the faces of some of McCain's campaign spokespersons just drives me nuts. Nancy Pfotenhauer looks like she's made of plastic with that constant Barbie smile and Tucker Bounds's attempts to spin thread into gold baffle me endlessly.

McCain looked mad all night. Obama looked presidential.

*snicker*

Stuttering through a speech is Presidential

Must be! Geoerge W has been doing it for years.

Peanutbutter wrote:

Tucker Bounds

Is a complete fucking idiot.

a few quotes of my reactions to the debates from another thread.

Quote :

If someone says McCain won that debate they are drinking the kool-aid.

The corner stone of his economic policy is to just cut all ear mark spending as if thats the reason our economy is failing. Like Obama said, its taking a hatchet to programs when you need a scalpel. He just goes on and on about cutting all "pork barrel spending" so he's against congress giving money to schools and organizations that are trying to develop new technology because a few people used them to fund things like his VP's bridge to nowhere? He doesn't even mention the hypocrisy of his criticism of ear marking money going out while being more than happy to accept special interest money coming in. I guess if all of your top advisers and your campaign manager were themselves lobbyists it makes some sense because logic would dictate that money poured into a presidential campaign by lobbyists is a way of buying allegiance.

"Pork Barrel Spending" is this elections version of the Gay Marriage issue in 04. It is smoke screen that republicans do to draw attention away from the actual issues because they are the ones who created them. McCain wants to continue our country's imperialistic conquest of the east and I personally see that as being the biggest mistake our leader could make, as made evident in our last 2 terms of a republican president. If you're in favor of the draft, further inflation and a further diminish our country's reputation throughout the world then I suggest you vote for McCain because it is exactly what he represents.

Quote :

http://obama.senate.gov/press/070621-obama_announces_3/

Where is the scary, wasteful spending? Ear marks are money that is appropriated to fund research and domestic infrastructure improvement and the development of new technologies which both help create jobs and keep money within our country. How is McCain accepting money from lobbyists of even the corporations that are causing the economic crisis as we speak not more indictable than transparently appropriating tax money to fund domestic industry and aid in new technological discoveries.

Also, whats the alternative to allowing the legislative branch to spend this money with oversight and transparency? Leaving the tax spending completely up to the executive branch? So instead of our tax dollars being a part of a check and balance system its up to the arbitrary reasoning of the president and his advisors? McCain believe it is important for us to remove the democratic manner that appropriate ear mark spending is conducted and leave the decisions to an unaccountable group of only a few individuals. Brilliant.

Quote :

Oh, and I thought McCain was Mr. Foreign Policy but as Obama so succinctly put it "You were wrong." A nice little juxtaposition of Obama's "You were wrong" indictment of McCain with McCain's actual previous quotes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG1aOORf8Pc

Do we went people who are complicit to the belligerent militarism their party has displayed since 2003 or people who have shown sound judgment to recognize missteps as they have occurred and wasn't afraid to speak out against it? This sound judgment leads me to believe Obama would exercise a more thought out execution of military actions to come instead of being an instrument of the Bush white house to drum up our current unnecessary war.

McCain speaks of his history of being a maverick and bucking the system as indication that he's more qualified to challenge Washington status quo now but when Obama brings up that McCain was dead wrong about the Iraq invasion to illustrate his fallacious judgment as a detriment to his candidacy McCain appeals that we shouldn't be looking backwards but forwards.

The hatchet metaphor was in reference to McCain's spending freeze, not earmarks.

That being said, there's nothing more telling than McCain describing our current financial collapse as a "fiscal crisis." He's just plain dumb with respect to policy wonkage.

Galt wrote:

Peanutbutter wrote:

Tucker Bounds

Is a complete fucking idiot.

“Barack Obama failed to utter the word ‘victory’ a single time during last night’s debate on foreign policy,” Mr. Bounds said in a statement. “And that’s failing the commander in chief test by any standard.”

- New York Times 9/27/08

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

McCain didn't mention Middle Class or Working Familes once. Ergo, out of touch.

Kamma wrote:

The hatchet metaphor was in reference to McCain's spending freeze, not earmarks.

I wasn't trying to use it in the same context, just using the same catch phrase he used in the debates. Though it could be said that earmarks are a part of the spending freeze, he wasn't exactly discriminant.

Not to completely derail the topic, but can anyone explain to me what is actually being said in Palin's response to Couric here? I know there has to be someone on these forums with greater economic ken than I (ie. Kamma).



"COURIC: Why isn't it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families who are struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries; allow them to spend more and put more money into the economy instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?

PALIN: That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health-care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, helping the—it's got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health-care reform and reducing taxes and reigning in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans. And trade, we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we've got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that."


... what?

- Z - wrote:

... can anyone explain to me what is actually being said in Palin's response to Couric here?

Sure, it goes something like "I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm just throwing random shit out there to see if it sticks."

I honestly don't think I could have come up with as clusterfucked of an answer as that if I had 15 minutes to sit down and try. She's talking about "scary things" and bad guys, she needs to gtfo of here with talking to people like we are in kindergarden. If she was really "country first" she would drop out of the election.

- Z - wrote:

PALIN: That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health-care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, helping the—it's got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health-care reform and reducing taxes and reigning in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans. And trade, we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we've got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that."

Can be translated into:

1. We don't like additional spending because it means (in reality we know but don't say it directly) that someone will have to pay for it via higher taxes/inflation in the long run.

2. But we can fix that problem by cutting taxes -- "So... reducing taxes... has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans". Right? Maybe? Ok. Sounds good. We can eliminate future taxes by reducing current taxes.

3. BTW throw in health care reform and "creating jobs" randomly since they're good buzzwords and if you talk about them like you know what you're saying (omg tax cuts) ppl will like you even though you are a republican and really dont want to do anything... (except cut taxes because that fixes everything).

4. Trade is good. (Nothing to refute here. Although I'm not exactly sure what the "trade sector" is?)

5. So therefore, job creation umbrella.

6. That's why we need to do the bail out.

7. ???!?!

8. Profit!

9. I mean tax cuts.

10. I mean oil profits!

11. Or both

In other words, she's a fucking idiot.

/applaud

Ever notice that Palin repeats the same 20 lines over and over, even when pressed for specifics? That said, Obama's team says the video of her in the past shows she's a strong debater, so they'll make sure to prepare appropriately. For Palin's credit, people will probably be expecting nothing from her, and the VP can bomb the debate and not really impact public opinion (see Dan Quayle vs Lloyd Bentsen and the "You're no Jack Kennedy" commentary for an example). However, opinion shows she really isn't regarded as ready for the job, but Biden has 2/3 approval for readiness.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-k_n_129956.html

Tiny Fey returns to mock the Katie Couric interview. If you have seen the interviews, the whole shtick is pretty good.

That was solid gold PB.

I think I can up the ante though, albeit in a more serious and suicidally depressing way...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/27/palin-takes-questions-during-cheesesteak-run/#more-21174

The hippy left is strong in this thread.

Hippy left as opposed to what? Neo-Conservatism? You prefer us all to say something like this? "American should rule the world and take over any country it wants and establish a world government."

Galt wrote:

Hippy left as opposed to what? Neo-Conservatism? You prefer us all to say something like this? "American should rule the world and take over any country it wants and establish a world government."

OR we could stop all this party shit and fix our country.

You're the one that brought up the party shit.

Galt wrote:

You're the one that brought up the party shit.

wrong

Right, way to hammer your point and thoughtful opinion of the debates. Grats at bad.

Galt wrote:

Right, way to hammer your point and thoughtful opinion of the debates. Grats at bad.

Holyhoof is the one who initially brought it up

Edit: Also, its pretty hard to make a lengthy debate post on an iPhone in the middle of a church service

way I see it, we better pick a solid VP simply because neither of the presidential candidates will be in office for long.

McCain's out of touch and unfamiliar with everything such as "working middle class" because, when he was born the feudal system was still popular and, being that he's 30 years older'n dirt, I wouldn't be surprised if he died a year from now.

Obama will probably get assassinated by some retarded bigot "for the good of America."

aka

pick a solid VP that can chew gum and walk at the same time, put a coherent sentence together, and doesn't dodge questions like I plan to with the draft if it's ever reinstated.