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 Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?

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PB



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PostSubject: Re: Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?   Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:09 pm

Well that's one way to look at it, but you ought to know I'm actually registered Republican right now and have seriously re-evaluated my political standpoints after the last few years of growing up and really getting interested in the topic. I just find it hard to believe that you feel both sides are too hard-headed to change their view because I've certainly changed mine before. (I didn't re-register my party because I voted Ron Paul in the primaries to try and derail Romney).

And just a bit on Tak's side, while I don't agree that you are facist or communist (two extremes on either side of the spectrum) by supporting one party, I will say that if you only have one party, it won't be long before people within that party splinter away with a slightly differing line of thought until you have two (or more) parties.
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Shelarahn

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PostSubject: Re: Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?   Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:26 pm

Peanutbutter wrote:
Well that's one way to look at it, but you ought to know I'm actually registered Republican right now and have seriously re-evaluated my political standpoints after the last few years of growing up and really getting interested in the topic. I just find it hard to believe that you feel both sides are too hard-headed to change their view because I've certainly changed mine before. (I didn't re-register my party because I voted Ron Paul in the primaries to try and derail Romney).

And just a bit on Tak's side, while I don't agree that you are facist or communist (two extremes on either side of the spectrum) by supporting one party, I will say that if you only have one party, it won't be long before people within that party splinter away with a slightly differing line of thought until you have two (or more) parties.

I agree that both sides can change, in fact I used to be very liberal at one point. I'm just saying that its useless to debate this amongst you all because as far as I know, I am the only Christian Conservative in the entire guild, so its pretty futile to say anything.

And about the party's, the whole point is that we try to get to a point where we can all agree on the important issues, and leave petty differences aside. It seems these days that some people vote just because they are that party, instead of because of the issues.

On the issue of McCain though, I'm not really a huge fan of him either, but like the '00 and '04 elections, I support him because he is the lesser of two evils, but like a caller to Rush said Tuesday, the lesser of two evils, is still evil.
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PB



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PostSubject: Re: Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?   Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:59 pm

Actually, people have voted along partisan lines for a lot longer than just recently. Some people will make up their minds based on debates and consideration, but most just go with the ticket.

I think if you are a Christian Conservative, Obama is a stronger candidate for you because he has the stronger faith background, supports Bush faith-based initiatives, and generally questions his beliefs. He isn't going to drastically expand abortion or gay rights (he opposes gay marriage, fyi), he just won't bluntly interject his faith into his political powers. McCain isn't even that religious, he just started acting overtly "Godly" because it appeals to the evangelical sector of the right.
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Polarity

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PostSubject: Re: Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?   Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:04 am

So in an argument between people being forced into the military to die overseas against their will, or going against your morals, you go for the former? I say lets keep people alive, then work on the morals later.
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thereclaimer

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PostSubject: Re: Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?   Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:44 am

Ever notice how the population that plays video games is dominantly liberal? It seems strange that so many people playing would share such a common ideal.

tldr; Red neck hicks are too busy fucking their cousin to learn how to use a computer.
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Kamma

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PostSubject: Re: Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?   Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:04 am

Primary wrote:
Pro-communist nut job

QFT and read

Quick history of economic thought lesson. Who spearheaded the rise of what some would label as "conservative" economics? The answer: Milton Friedman. (And ironically it's called liberalization of economics.)

Now. Let me make it incredibly clear how distorted the world view you have taken truly is. You support public policy that stands directly at odds to the policy prescriptions of the patron saint of the resurgence of "conservatism." Specifically, you are for tax cuts given our current fiscal and economics situation. The following video will show just how adamantly opposed to that line of thinking Friedman was:

The discussion begins at ~28:05 if you are interested, or you can just go to 50:35 to get to my point. Watch how uncomfortable and put off Friedman gets with the senator's retort (what the man says following the applause).

He says, "but you are introducing a confusion that has confused the American people. And that is a confusion between spending and taxes. The real tax on the American people is not what you label taxes -- it is total spending."

"All I am saying is dont kid yourself into thinking that there is some painless way to do it, there just is not."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5538021588734490153&q=Milton+Friedman+Free+to+choose+duration%3Along&total=16&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

The deficit over time:



(Which periods hurt us the most??? Reagan/Bush by having un-financed tax cuts.)


The main point of the video is that monetary discipline is necessary to tame inflation. But the second point (and the argument which I am using as evidence) is that reducing taxes cannot and will not help. Truly truly truly, a reduction in taxes and an increase in spending (subsidies) are essentially equivalent (a basic lesson from econ 101, go study). It is essential to reduce the deficit. What matters is the gap between spending and taxes. Tax cutting is not responsible, and is not a miracle elixir. Watch as Friedman tells the senator to give up his tax cutting rhetoric.

And to just hammer the point in even more. Obama's tax plan would put federal taxes as a percent of gdp EQUAL TO THE LEVEL WHICH REAGAN IMPLEMENTED. If Obama is a crackpot communist are you saying that Reagan was too? You have no idea just how replete with contradiction your line of thinking is.

And don't throw blah blah blah liberal crap in my face. You have absolutely no idea. In fact most modern "liberals" would probably consider my point of view to be fairly "conservative."


Last edited by Kamma on Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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Thop
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Joe, Whaddaya Know?   Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:29 am

Kamma wrote:

QFT and read

That was a pretty good read. Its quite sad that falsehoods of Obama's tax plan go largely unchecked by the media.

edit: Forgot a vowel Wink
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