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 [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally

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Sengip



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PostSubject: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:07 am

I am currently holy but main spec is prot.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gorgonnash&n=Sengip

Stats (Unbuffed)
Prot: HP unbuffed: 16,577 spell dmg: 410 Avoidance: 107%
Holy: +healing: 2057 Mana: 10038 24.57% holy crit chance
Ret: Currently still building a ret set; mostly from za drops due to badges going to holy set

TANKS ONLY (Druids may remove Parry, Non-Paladins may remove Spell Damage)
Armor:
Dodge:
Parry:
Block:
Block Value:
Expertise:
Spell Damage:

PHYSICAL DPS ONLY (Hunters may remove Expertise)
AP:
Hit:
Crit:
Haste:
Expertise:

CASTERS ONLY (Healers may remove damage, DPS may remove Healing)
Healing:1971
Mp5 (while casting):78 while casting (still getting crit higher)
Crit:24.57%


Do you have The Medallion of Karabor?
I do not yet.

A shadow resist set for Mother Sharhaz? (any pieces?)
i do not yet

A fire resist set for Illidan? (tanks only, all others can delete this line)
Once i am done building my holy set i plan on building one

What is your trinket set-up? Do you need any obvious upgrades? (DST, HSH, etc?)
Healing: Scarab of the Infinite cycle (love the haste proc) Ribbon of sacrifice
Prot: Darkmoon card: Vengeance; Commendation of Kael'thas

Where are you from? (do you speak/understand English well?)
Arizona usa. clear english

How old are you?
17

Do you have a mic/headset for vent?
Yes

Do you have Grid, XPerl, PallyPower, or some other UI that helps you buff, pick up lose aggro, etc?
For healing i use Healbot and for prot i use tankadin

And for either spec i use Pally power

Raid Experience
kara - Clear!
Gruuls - Clear!
Mags - Clear!
Ssc - Clear!
TK - Voidreaver - Al'ar down!
Hyjal - Rage Winterchill - Anetheron - Kaz'rogal Down!
BT -
SWP -

Guild History
Digital heroes: Break up over guild drama

Acknowledgment of agreement to our rules and times
Yes i agree to all of your agreements. rules, and times

Preparedness for the next scheduled raid, unless stated here
Yes i will be prepared with flask's and which ever spec you will need me as

Reason(s) for applying
Over my time playing this game i have noticed how damage done plays. I love! how you guys do your rolling system, ive used DKP way to long and i have seen it actually disband guilds. Also, the people that i have ran with from damage done have very good gear, but with that gear they have the ability to get there job done, and even more sometimes Very Happy, also i see you guys everywhere and i have yet to see any of the guild members from 'Damage done' start and drama or fights between people outside of the guild. which shows me the respect the guild has for everyone else.

Final Thoughts, why you would be a good addition to Damage Done
I think that i would be a good addition to Damage done because all the people that know me know how much i love to raid. When i raid im not only going for the loot, the main reason i raid is because i love seeing end game content, and i enjoy doing it with people that share the same feelings. With that being said, i will respec as many times as you want me to for any reason. Most time i will respec for kara (for badges) then 5min later will be asked to tank something, and i will go and respec back to prot... some days i even respec a little too much but i really dont mind. All the gold that i get from my 70 hunter or this toon goes to improving my character (gems, enchants ect). and if you do armory me while i am prot you will see how every gem in my gear is an epic gem. That right there is proof that all my gold goes to improving my paladin.

- thanks for reviewing my post Smile


Last edited by Sengip on Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Secondary

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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:10 am

Aren't you Pigness?
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:13 am

uhm. well yeah but on my pally..... ive shut up now :X

Secondary...that name rings some bells..i see your from arizona, what part?
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:20 am

I live around Pheonix. Anyway, you are in your holy gear on armory so I'll ask what questions I have.

Your enchants seem okay, but you have several heal/int gems, I realize those gems seem good with int giving crit and Divine Intellect, but in nearly every case you are better off with a +8/10 spell crit gem. I noticed 6 stats to chest which is a little inferior to 6mp5. Lastly, vitality is good, but boar's speed is better. Never underestimate the run speed bonus.
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:22 am

Yeah i just actually started on my holy set not to long ago. If u would like me to i can log off real fast in my prot gear if u wanna check that out.

oh and..20 badges and i will have the badge healing mace.. so disregaurd the lights justice :'(
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:25 am

Feel free to log in your prot suit. I'm not the expert on tankadin theorycraft but I'm sure Serayne or Petrus would be glad to take a look.
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:26 am

kk will do right now.

And i trust you; but why is boars speed better?
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:33 am

/facepalm
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:33 am

What's with the kaw thing?
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:34 am

Run speed bonus is really really nice for all purposes. Losing three stamina and/or 4 mp5 for 8% increase is a great tradeoff; it's like having a free point in PoJ.

That said, I'd like to see the prot set and ask some questions about it after you've logged in it, though I remember vaguely what it looked like, I have to be able to examine it to be sure. I'd also have to see the spec with the gear, if that's alright.

Edit: A Warcrafter sandboxing of your gear/gems/enchants/spec would also work if you don't want to respec. http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox


Last edited by Petrus on Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:34 am

The 4mp5 from vitality isn't much to sacrifice and the minor run speed helps a lot more than it seems like it would. For example, in Archimonde he often punts you and the people around you roughly 100 yards away from him and the extra 7-8% run speed helps you get back to the fight. In a fight like Illidari Council where most of the damage is AoE stuff like Blizzard, the run speed helps you get out of it faster.
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:37 am

i see i see... yeah i understand now.
I was just looking at those boots. and i hope to replace them soon, but if not i will change the enchant on that asap
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:41 am

I think 2.3 badge boots might be better, I don't remember. If not the only upgrade after the ones you have are the trash drop boots from ssc.
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:42 am

Yeah i was just going through my atlas and it seems to be those are the next upgrade
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:50 am

I see you have logged in your protection set.

Here are my questions for you. Some of them may or may not have correct answers and some are opinion questions, but I will not specify.

1. Your gem choices:
a. Why do you gem for bonuses instead of straight stamina?
b. Why do you use some spelldamage gems for threat instead of gemming for avoidance?
c. Why did you put green gems in blue sockets?
2. Enchant choices:
a. Why do you have Defense instead of Dodge to cloak?
b. Why 150 stamina to chest instead of 15 defense?
c. Why 20 spelldamage instead of 2% threat on your gloves?
3. Gear Choices:
a. Why do you use Pepe's Shroud of Pacification instead of Slikk's Cloak of Placation?
b. Why do you use the 2.4 warrior chest instead of the 2.3 paladin chest?
c. Why do you still use the Holy Shield Block Rating libram when you're 5% over on uncrushability?
d. Why are you using Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian?
e. Why do you use two stamina trinkets instead of one stam trinket with one avoidance trinket?

I'd like a link to the spec you use as well.
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:03 am

Petrus wrote:
I see you have logged in your protection set.

Here are my questions for you. Some of them may or may not have correct answers and some are opinion questions, but I will not specify.

1. Your gem choices:
a. Why do you gem for bonuses instead of straight stamina? Ive been slowly changing my gems to just stam gems
b. Why do you use some spelldamage gems for threat instead of gemming for avoidance? My spell dmg was low and usually people would lecture me on having low spell dmg
c. Why did you put green gems in blue sockets?
2. Enchant choices:
a. Why do you have Defense instead of Dodge to cloak?
b. Why 150 stamina to chest instead of 15 defense?
c. Why 20 spelldamage instead of 2% threat on your gloves? I was told from someone that 20spell dmg was better than 2% threat...i didnt think so but they convinced me to get it
3. Gear Choices:
a. Why do you use Pepe's Shroud of Pacification instead of Slikk's Cloak of Placation?
b. Why do you use the 2.4 warrior chest instead of the 2.3 paladin chest? That was something i still regret to this day;
c. Why do you still use the Holy Shield Block Rating libram when you're 5% over on uncrushability? have not found one better yet
d. Why are you using Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian? What are wrong with those?
e. Why do you use two stamina trinkets instead of one stam trinket with one avoidance trinket? Was told this is best combo for pally tanks :'(

Thanks for noticing these things...anything that makes me better i love Very Happy

I'd like a link to the spec you use as well.
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:16 am

Can you, er, unlink the answers from the quote? It's kind of difficult to read, though I'll do my best to reply to the answers, and some questions still need answers.

1a. This is more of an opinion thing. I personally like straight stam, but some people like avoidance.
1b. Gemming for threat is generally not recommended save for one or two slots on one or two pieces here or there, as stamina and avoidance tend to be more desirable from the sockets.
1c. Needs an answer: Why did you put green gems in blue sockets?
2a. Needs an answer: Why do you have Defense instead of Dodge to cloak?
2b. Needs an answer: Why 150 stamina to chest instead of 15 defense?
2c. 2% threat outpaces 20 spelldamage as soon as you're past about 500 tps, which you should be getting as soon as you hit 70 and have any kind of spelldamage weapon. By your gear level, the difference is quite large. I can give you a link to a thread on the topic if you'd like.
3a. Needs an answer: Why do you use Pepe's Shroud of Pacification instead of Slikk's Cloak of Placation?
3b. Are you going to work to get the 2.3 paladin chest? There's nothing wrong with the 2.4 warrior chest; it's partly a matter of opinion here. In fact, that chestpiece is really nice and will probably last you until the T6 chest from Illidan just like the other one would.
3c. If you're more than 5.33% over 102.4% (or close enough to it where regemming/re-enchanting would get you there), then you should do that re-gemming/enchanting and go get the http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33504 Libram of Divine Purpose, which increases damage (and thus threat) from Seal and Judgement of Righteousness.
3d. The Blue's Greaves are... pretty fail, tbh. They have a LOT of spell hit which is essentially useless as it doesn't effect enough parts of your threat to be significant. They also have a lot of Block Rating. While good for uncrushability, this is the first thing pushed off of the attack table when Holy Shield goes up and dodge/defense would be better for main tanking especially. The 2.3 paladin boots (Sabatons of the Righteous Defender) and the ZA boots (Jungle Stompers) are both very very good choices, as both are better itemized (i.e. less wasted item points on spell hit, even though there's a little on Sabatons) and have better stats overall for maintanking.
3e. This is an opinion question. I personally like avoidance/stam, but stam/stam is perfectly normal for many tankadins and a good way to up your health.

I can give links to threads at Maintankadin discussing all of these issues if you'd like to see them.


Last edited by Petrus on Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:23 am

1c: I really dont know. i think at the time i was short on defense
2a: Once again i was going for more defense because the lack of defense i had
2b: i asked around for a long long long time about this one, and even read up, yet couldnt find anything that helped; this is easily fixed though
3a: i thought it was better. I really have not looked into it that much but i will compare them soon here
3d: about the boots; i have the ones from ZA in my bank, WITH 15stam gem and 12stam enchant already on them, so if they really are that much better its just a few clicks away to put them back on Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:30 am

1c. Green gems in Blue sockets is the only one here other than the boots I see really being a bad choice. Enduring Seaspray Emeralds aren't fantastic gems to begin with but they do the job for yellow sockets. However, Blue sockets should pretty much almost always be straight Stamina gems.
2a. This is an opinion thing - the difference in uncrushability is only .12 (12 dodge gives .69 whereas 12 defense gives .81), so it's not a big deal, and going to dodge might be better in the long run after you don't need that .12%.
2b. This is mostly an opinion thing. If you want specifics, go read Rishana's application; it's discussed at great length there and there's a link to the thread on Maintankadin about it.
3a. They're each good situationally, but Slikk's is sometimes regarded as the better MTing cloak for paladins because it has defense for some more uncrushability and some extra armor. I can link a thread from Maintankadin on the topic if you'd like me to.
3d. I'd switch to the stompers as soon as you can; they're superior in a lot of ways. Again, I can link you to the thread if you want.

Thanks for taking time to answer that wall of questions. I only have one more: what prot spec do you use for raiding? Feel free to just link a spec from wowhead.
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:35 am

Yeah man, hook me up with those links



oh and ill try to get you a link asap...comps being weird cuz storms going over my house
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:47 am

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0tIx0dMgqtVbx0h


There is one of the tanking ones i usually use
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:59 am

The source of these links: Maintankadin

20 Spelldamage vs. 2% Threat as glove enchants: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=7257
150 Health vs. 15 Defense as chest enchants: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=7696
Gemming for Stamina vs. Avoidance (and maybe threat): http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=10407 (kind of an endless discussion, as it's very much an opinion thing) and http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=8391
2.3 Paladin Chest vs. 2.4 Warrior Chest (both from badges): http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=10393
Stam/Stam vs. Avoid/Stam trinkets:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=11778 and http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=9427
Slikk's Cloak of Placation vs. Pepe's Shroud of Pacification:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=10654 and http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=5900
On Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian and other badge loots: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=8197 and http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=6444 (Some people may say that they're okay for some things, and they might be, but for most applications, other boots far outperform them)

I'd recommend making an account at maintankadin (so you can post) and start reading up. Go digging through the gear checks and advice forum; there's a LOT of good stuff in there.

Also, after looking at that spec:

I'd personally drop the points in Pursuit of Justice and put them in Precision. You'll get a slight increase in threat out of it because of the hit you gain, and putting Boar's Speed on your boots is essentially half of PoJ for free. Even then, that's what I'd do, and you don't have to do that if you don't want to. Your spec looks pretty solid other than that.


Last edited by Petrus on Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:02 am

TL;DR
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Sengip



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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:20 am

Damn that site is amazing...makes me re-think a lot of my gems. Well, looks like there will be MANY changes in my gear In the next 2 days Smile

Thanks for all the links man

and the spec thing, i really dont know; i mean i could try both and see which one is better.
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PostSubject: Re: [Declined] Sengip - Holy (or) Prot pally   Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:58 am

The main thing is that precision has hit rating which affects both taunt and avenger's shield, and since you don't find hit on a lot of paladin tanking gear other than things like Kaz'rogal's Hardened Heart/Aldori Legacy Defender and Pepe's Shroud, most tankadins take the talent because it's so scarce in other places. Most things with hit are weapons (designed for warriors) and warrior off-set pieces or pieces without spelldamage on them.


Last edited by Petrus on Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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